I think if person a, uses person b's cc, without person b's
knowledge/permission, its a clear case of fraud. I never thought about the
fact that someone might pay with a fraudulent cc, then accuse me of breach
of contract. If it helps, my package deals, are always itemized, and the
domain name is never free.
At 04:06 AM 3/15/00 -0600, Tim Jung wrote:
>In this case you have to prove it was fraud, and not a contract dispute over
>the fact that you sold the domain as part of a package deal and you never
>lived up to your end of the contract at all. Thus they are entitled to the
>domain since it is their company domain your registered on their behalf for
>free, as a freebie for the contract for domain development and hosting that
>they wanted. At lot of states have laws that say if you give away something
>for free as part of a sale, they can return the item or declare breech of
>contract and not have to return the free item. This issue should be
>something you consulting with your lawyer about how this point of law may
>effect you in your state. Not to mention if the client sues you for loss of
>revenue and damage to their business because you didn't perform your
>contract duties for web design and hosting in the required time frame, and
>now your trying to hold their domain hostage in spite of your breech of
>contract, and they want damage and the domain name that they can't just get
>another one of, you can't buy another acme.com. The courts would probably
>rule since you breached the contract you might loose the domain, since there
>can be only one domain. Again you should talk with your lawyer about this.
>It isn't as clear cut as you think. You might also want to look at
>work-for-hire copyright and contract disputes for something similar as well.
>
>Tim Jung
>System Admin
>Internet Gateway Inc.
>tjung@igateway.net
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Pickles" <sales@primechoice.com>
>To: <coolfred@coolfred.org>; <tjung@igateway.net>;
><discuss-list@opensrs.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:45 AM
>Subject: Re: New Ideas for OpenSRS (or wish list) - Reseller Access
>
>
> > Bravo, and well said.
> >
> > In order for a contract to be legally binding, all aspects of the contract
> > must be followed. If proper payment terms is included in the contract
>then
> > improper payment would be a breach of contract.
> >
> > If a person passes a bad check, then I think there are different rules
> > about regaining the goods. But in the case of a Fraudulent charge,
> > especially with CC fraud, I believe the contract is breached. The seller
> > at that point can exercise rights within the contract to remedy the
>situation.
> >
> > Teeth for Enforcement:
> > Modify your contract to specially mention
> > fraudulent payment are a breach of contract.
> >
> > RSP(s) Not opensrs, modify their registration process to generate
> > two passwords, one for the customer and one for Opensrs.
> > Then modify the front-end to manage.cgi to take the the client
>passwd,
> > and retrieve and use the opensrs passwd to manage the record.
>This
> > solves two issues, the breach of contract issue, and the lost
>passwd
> > issue. I've already implemented this so folks can loose the
>passwd,
> > and change their e-mail addresses all the want. I can, with a
>few
> > clicks
> > send them their old passwd. Of course, I had to modify
>manage.cgi,
> > to change "my" copy of the passwd, and of course the passwords
>are
> > secure
> > on my machine.
> >
> > Regarding the contract change and remedy, I've posted that
> > question before
> > and not received feedback from Opensrs. I suspect that
>Scott/Ross
> > et-all are
> > following this, but necessarily remaining silent as this is a
> > legal issue
> > that other opensrs folks must deal with.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:04 AM 3/14/00 -0800, Coolfred Internet Services wrote:
> > >Never say 100% unless you are willing to bet your life on it!:-)
> > >
> > >A domain name is not a perishable property such as food or gas. It is a
> > >considered a company asset (ask your accountant about the difference). So
> > >your analogy to food and gas is 99.99999% wrong. Additionally, yu are
> > >again wrong about using false credit cards to travel. I doubt it you will
> > >be able to fly American Airlines if you used bogus credit crads to buy
>the
> > >ticket, at best, instead of an airplane you will have cops waiting for
>you
> > >on Gate 1!!! Can you buy a house with fake credit cards and keep it? How
> > >about a computer? What about a webhosting plan from company ABC? You
> > >better have answered "NO"! A domain name is not any different from a
> > >webhosting package, a computer part or a company car.
> > >
> > >Farhad Sadeghi
> > >Coolfred Internet Services
> > >http://www.coolfred.net
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Tim Jung <tjung@igateway.net> wrote:
> > > >Sorry but your 100% wrong here. This is the policy and risk you
>accepted
> > > >when you decided to take credit cards. This is true in lots of
>industries.
> > > >If someone buys a steak dinner, a few books at the bookstore and some
>gas
> > > >for their car on my stolen credit card or stolen credit card number,
>then
> > > >the bookstore, restaurant, and gas station are all out of luck. I don't
>pay
> > > >for any of that and they lost out. Same thing is true in the travel
>industry
> > > >as well. The credit card company will just have one question
> > > >ultimately......do you have signed copy of the imprint of the card and
>did
> > > >you swipe the card for the transaction....NO? Well then here is one
>charge
> > > >back, your welcome. That is the policy of the credit card companies
>like it
> > > >or not.
> > > >
> > > >Tim Jung
> > > >System Admin
> > > >Internet Gateway Inc.
> > > >tjung@igateway.net
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Coolfred Internet Services" <coolfred@coolfred.org>
> > > >To: <bscott@stockdogsaction.com>; <discuss-list@opensrs.org>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 9:07 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: New Ideas for OpenSRS (or wish list) - Reseller Access
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Customer sends you a bad check or uses a bad credit card to buy 10
>domains
> > > >for 10 years. As soon as you get the authorization number or the check
>you
> > > >release the password to the customer and lose control over the domains.
>30
> > > >days later you get a charge back on the credit card after the real
>owner
> > > >sees their monthly statement. So you are already out $20 to $30 for the
> > > >chargeback depending on your merchant account. but of course you can't
>get
> > > >your hands on the domains and OpenSRS has already charged you $1000 for
>the
> > > >domains. So how are we exactly supposed to recover this loss? would
>Tucows
> > > >reimberse the $10 if a domain goes in default and is not paid for?
> > > >>
> > > >> It is rediculous to say this is "the risk" you must accept and this
>is
> > > >like "any other business". If a guy doesn't pay for his hosting
>account, I
> > > >simply lock his account. But to recover, say $1000, you would have to
>sell a
> > > >100 domains for $20 to recover this loss.
> > > >>
> > > >> OpenSRS admins should seriously reconsider this policy. I for one,
>would
> > > >volunteer my services as an arbitrar, if a customer claims that a
>reseller
> > > >is being abusive of the power they are given. If a committee is setup
>and
> > > >that committee looks after this, then what is the problem?
> > > >
> > > >[snip]
> > > >
> > > >> Farhad Sadeghi
> > > >> Coolfred Internet Services
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________________
> > >Get your Free Email address at http://freemail.coolfred.org brought to
>you
> > >by http://www.coolfred.net
> >
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